Equality Based on the Soul

Exploring The Jewish root in the Vedas

World Peace and Spiritual Advancement

Based on the Common Understanding

Of the Soul

W.L. Glick (Isa Das)

Gary Tanis (Dharma Das)

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Introduction

Dedication and Preface 3

1 Jewish Souls and Others? 9

2 The Soul's Purpose in the Material World 11

3 Guru and the Rabbi 13

4 A Godly King 14

5 Translating the Scriptures and Understanding Their Essence 15

6 Free Will and Destiny 17

7 Intoxication and Sexual Enjoyment 19

8 Becoming Fearless of Death 21

9 The Lord in the Heart 24

10 Reincarnation 25

11 The Garden of Eden and Vrindavan 26

12 Israel 29

13 The Lord's Forms and Incarnations 31

14 The Devastating Flood 33

15 Metatron and Mahavishnu 36

16 A Flaming Sword and Sudarsana Cakra 38

17 The Lord's Bodily (Brahman) Effulgence 41

18 The Oral and Written Traditions of the Torah and the Vedas 43

19 God's Form and Beauty 46

20 Direct and Indirect Female Expansions of God's Energy 48

21 Demigods and Angels 50

22 Chanting the Holy Names of the Lord 52

23 Comparative Analysis of God's Holy Names 55

24 Balarama and Balam 57

25 Vedic and Jewish Calendars and the End of this Age 59

26 Idol Worship vs Deity Worship 62

27 Food 65

28 Tefillin and Tilaka 67

29 Customs and Traditions 69

30 Taking Shelter of the Lord 71

31 The Universal Form 73

32 The Omniscience and Omnipotence of God and His pure Servants 74

33 Life Comes from Life 77

34 Abortions 79

35 Conclusion: 82

Bibliography 85

Dedication and Preface

I would like to dedicate this book to those who have given me the inspiration to compile it and have joined me in living its principles.

First, I owe everything to my spiritual father my Guru, His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, he has so patiently prodded me to take responsibility for my life and share my realizations with others. We offer this book to him on his Appearance Day, August 26, 1997.

Next is His Holiness Satsvarupa das Gosvami, my very dear godbrother. When I first heard him speak in Miami in 1974, the words of our Guru poured forth, presented without ego. I knew, here was a spiritual friend and guide to share my life with.

There were times when I felt lost with no support. During those trying times in Miami our close group of friends, Param Dhama das and his wife Trayodisha devi dasi and Madhava Ashraya das and his wife Anjana Suta devi dasi were always bringing me new books and heaps of well wishes. And my extraordinary wife Mrnalini dasi, who has assisted me in countless ways. I certainly could not have accomplished any of this without her support.

I would also like to thank Dharma das, my co-writer, who has spent endless hours editing and developing the deep devotional mood of the book.

I began this manuscript the winter of 1976. I was traveling with Satsvarupa das Goswami, touring colleges, and lecturing about Vedic philosophy. We were reading in the library between classes when I asked him the hundredth time to write a book about sub-religious principles (customs, rituals, prayers etc.). He caught me off guard this time, and told me I should write it. After a few attempts I gave up. But as we moved around the country I had many occasions to test my thoughts and ideas on the college professors we met.

On the road, reading was our main pastime. After rereading the Five Books of Moses (the Old Testament) and the New Testament more times than my godbrothers approved of, I became convinced that the spiritual message presented by the Jews was of the same essence

as the Vedic tradition I was now exploring.

Having married and sharing the wonderful birth and development of our daughter (Abhaya), my wife and I moved back to Miami, to be near our relatives. It was here in Miami that His Holiness Jaya Advaita Swami gave me Hebrew translations of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is and the Srimad Bhagavatam to share with my Jewish neighbors. I was not able to convince my neighbors to read the books, but I became determined to open an inter-religious dialogue based on the similarities I had discovered. Fourteen years of continued study have passed; I have redoubled again and again my belief that the Jewish and Vedic oral traditions are the same. From the time of creation what the Jews call Yeda and the Hindus call Veda, is the root of all spiritual knowledge.

Introduction

World Peace: we all hanker for it. Even with the sincere attempts of our most stalwart planning commissions and religious leaders, the world's problems seem unfathomable. As long as crime, disease, racial and religious prejudice, and especially our determined drive for materialism plague us, peace will remain merely an unrealized utopia. Adherents to the Judeo-Christian tradition would like to have the kingdom of God manifest on earth. The Hindu tradition also aspires for Rama-raja, or the kingdom of God on earth. Our mistake is to want the kingdom of God to enjoy, without the presence of God.

An error of modern society and religion is to identify the body as the self. The Bhagavad-gita clearly explains that we should see and accept the spiritual essence (the soul) of each living being as spiritually equal. There it is said, "The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcast].

[B.g. 5.18] How does the learned sage see every living entity with equal vision? He sees the spirit soul within the heart of each of God's creations. He understands that although living forms may appear different, those appearances are only the external coverings for the soul, and that spiritually we are all equal. A careful analysis shows that all problems result from our first mistake of identifying the body as the self. If we identify ourselves by race, religion and ethnic group we will then suffer or enjoy the results of that identity, but the fact is we are spiritually equal and the bodily identity that we accept is both temporary and insignificant compared to our eternal spiritual identity. We suffer due to birth, disease, old age and death; we need not identify with the body, which is being afflicted by these difficulties. If everyone understood and acted on the level of the soul rather than the body, the world's problems would practically cease. Understanding the difference between matter and spirit, and that God is the controller of all things, is the essence of knowledge.

It is natural that when we become overwhelmed by difficulties, we become aware of our dependence on God. Unfortunately, due to our deep attachment to materialism, we are drawn to perceive religion in much the same manner, as we perceive ordinary social activities. That is, we become attached to identifying with the external or social side of religion, while we forget its essence - loving service to God.

Our modern use of the word religion, expresses an external alterable faith, while the Sanskrit world dharma, implies an internal or essential eternal relationship with God. Our religion or faith can change but the soul's relationship with God is eternal. For example, I may claim that I am a Christian today, but I may adopt the practices of a Hindu or of a Jew tomorrow. However, whatever faith you my follow, the essence of that faith is loving service to God. That eternal essence of our faith is what the Vedas refer to as sanatana-dharma. Dharma is a Sanskrit term that refers to the essence of something; that essence that cannot be separated from the object. For example, the dharma of fire is heat and light. Without heat and light fire cannot exist. The dharma of water is liquidity. Similarly, the dharma of every living entity is service. Every living entity serves another. The employee serves the employer. The parents serve the young children. Even the trees and plants serve others by providing shade, fruits, flowers or firewood. Voluntary service is the symptom of love, and the perfection of the serving propensity is to serve the Supreme Lord fully. Therefore, sanatana-dharma, the eternal occupational activity of the soul, or the eternal religion is service to God, or love of God.

sanatana-dharma is the real focus of Equality Based on the Soul. The inquisitive reader of Equality Based on the Soul should not under estimate this book as simply another treatise on comparative religion, a standard comparison of religious customs, names of God, rituals, philosophical likeness and differences, religious histories and so on. Of course, the reader will find that those comparisons are here in plenty, but their special significance is that each and every point of comparison expands and strongly establishes the truth, that the essence of every religious faith is loving service to God.

sanatana-dharma, the essence of the Vedic culture, predates all of our present religious faiths. As shown in this book, the reader will see the many similarities between Judaism and Hinduism. They are both by-products of the Vedic culture, which was neither Hindu, Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. No doubt, an in depth study of other religious faiths would bring to surface many other similarities. The essence of Vedic culture, the eternal nonsectarian godly society, has permeated all religious faiths for thousands of years. Unfortunately, with the passing of time, the trend of society's religious concerns has moved from internal to external or from the essence to the superficial. This has led to discord and conflict within society. As will be explained in Equality Based on the Soul, a society, which is not in the true sense God-centered will always remain in difficulty.

The Vedic culture was a God-centered religious social system. Every aspect of society was designed to help people advance in spiritual life. In the strict sense of the word, religion is meant to be a way of life, which comprises all other activities. With the passing of time, society's trend has been to change from spiritual orientation to the material. Of course, the world has suffered greatly for this deviation. As you read through Equality Based on the Soul, we urge that while appreciating the many comparisons made between these two major religious paths, you take special note to understand how each of those comparisons points toward the principles of equality based on the soul and its natural conclusion, loving service to God.

Although this first writing of Equality Based on the Soul is presented as a comparison between Hinduism and Judaism, this is only the beginning. In future writings we will expand this book to include the other religions. The religions of the world are all related to one another. Judaism and Christianity are so closely related that they are frequently referred to in unison as the Judeo-Christian tradition. Judaism existed long before the appearance of Jesus Christ, and in fact Christianity arose as a sect within Judaism. Later, in the seventh century, the prophet Mohammed founded Islam, the religion of the Muslims. He was preaching the same faith as the founders of Judaism and Christianity. He felt that although the original teachings were pure, some followers became corrupt resulting in adulterated scriptures. He did not hesitate to differ with them when he felt their teachings were wrong. Muslims believe that Mohammed is the final Prophet and his religion is the final instruction for all mankind. This book is in complete agreement with the Holy Koran; we will show that the Sanskrit A is the A in Allah. Thus, these three traditions are closely related.

Hinduism seems at first to stand a little separate from this group, it is most closely related to the original Vedic culture. Historically, the Vedic culture predates all religions, so it is not surprising that we have found many similarities between Judaism and Hinduism. The real essence of the Vedic culture, uninterrupted loving service to God without material motivation, shines through the external manifestations of all religious paths.

Equality Based on the Soul is presented as a fictional conversation, but it is strongly supported by scriptural reference from both the Hindu and Jewish scriptures. The information presented in this book came from a variety of written sources listed in the bibliography, as well as actual conversations between representatives of the two traditions. Many topics will be discussed in this book, but the most important message transmitted herein is that the concepts of the soul and God are very similar, far too similar to ignore the probability of their having common roots. The English word Jewish, which expresses the idea of a religious society, is not found in the Old Testament. Similarly, Hinduism also alludes to a religious society, but is found nowhere in the Vedas, the scriptures followed by the Hindus. Both sincere Hindus and Jews believe that being devoted to the Lord's service will spiritually elevate them.

In conclusion, we urge our readers to keep in mind that we are not attempting to create a new religion. God is the source of religious inspiration. Nor are we suggesting that the spiritual truth given in this book is applicable to only Hinduism or Judaism. Rather, we have presented these conversations between two religious faiths as a medium to pass on an eternal truth, that can and should be applied to every aspect of our lives.

We show that a non-sectarian religious culture exists eternally, it's supporting philosophy having been established by God and transmitted to us from the beginning of creation. That non-sectarian philosophy is based on the souls' eternal loving and serving relationship with God. It is not based on an impractical attempt to synthesize the external rituals, customs and traditions of the world religions. There is only one God and we are all children of God. We are not proposing that anyone give up his religion, but that by truly understanding the spiritual essence of religion one can become a more perfect Jew, Hindu, Christian or Muslim. Effective religious practice will help us give up the desire for material enjoyment and simultaneously become attached to the service of God.

As long as religious teachers and spiritual guides emphasize the external symptoms of their affiliations and neglect their real essence, unmotivated and uninterrupted service to God, society's spiritual void will continue. Whatever a great person does common people follow. We are naturally inclined to follow, especially in religious matters. If world leaders do not realize and act upon the spiritual essence of their religion, they will not be able to help their followers and citizens. Understanding the spiritual essence assures spiritual potency.

Being God-centered does not remove our difficulties or anxieties. Rather, it will help us see things in proper perspective. We will see the difference between temporary material activities and eternal spiritual activities. We will be able to tolerate all kinds of temporary inconveniences and difficulties as we strive for the ultimate goal, developing love of God and returning to His eternal abode.

Chapter One

JEWISH SOULS AND OTHERS

DEVOTEE: Rabbi, according to Jewish understanding, is there ultimately any difference between the soul of a person born in a Jewish family and the soul of someone who is not? Do Jews have any advantage over non-Jews in their ability to realize and love God?

RABBI: After close examination, I've concluded that the general principles of the soul, the creation, God, and His manifestations are surprisingly similar in all spiritual traditions. Furthermore, full realization of God can be achieved by anyone regardless of his race, religion or nationality. Here is a verse that confirms this point: `Elijah said, "I bring heaven and earth to bear witness that any human being, Jew or Gentile, man or woman, freeman or slave, according to his deeds, can become worthy of Ruach HaKodesh, the Holy Spirit, the transcendental experience." [Tana DeBei Eliahu Rabba 9] [Bahir II: 94]

DEVOTEE: The Vedic philosophy propounds a similar principle that proves we all have an equal opportunity to realize and love God and to achieve His eternal abode. According to Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-gita, "To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come back to Me." [Bg. 10.10] The Bhagavad-gita also teaches that we are spiritually equal and that our spiritual identity is far more important than any external considerations. There it is said, "Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both". [Bg. 2.16] Therefore, our real identity is spirit soul. Temporarily identifying ourselves as man or woman, Jew or Hindu, rich man or poor man ultimately has no bearing on our ability to realize God. God is eternal and we are eternally His servants regardless of how we identify ourselves at the present moment.

RABBI: Now of course many people identify themselves as Jews, others as Hindus, Muslims, or Christians. Frequently, religious followers are taught to think that they are on the right path and that everyone else is wrong. Yet, if we are to accept that we all have an equal chance to achieve love of God, then we must also accept that there is some underlying thread that ties all religions together in spite of their different scriptures, rituals, and culture. Considering the Vedic emphasis that we are spiritual by nature, how do the Vedas explain the essence of religion?

DEVOTEE: In his introduction to, The Bhagavad-gita As It Is, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada explains that point very nicely. "The English word religion is a little different from the Vedic word, sanatana-dharma, the essence of religion. Religion conveys the idea of faith, and faith may change. One may have faith in a particular process, and he may change this faith and adopt another, but sanatana-dharma refers to that activity which cannot be changed. For instance, liquidity cannot be taken from water, nor can heat be taken from fire. Similarly, the eternal function of the eternal living entity cannot be taken from the living entity." What is that eternal function of the soul? It is service. Every living entity serves someone. Even the trees serve others by supplying fruits, flowers, firewood, or shade. The essence of religion is devotional service to God; we may momentarily identify ourselves as Jews, Hindus, Christians etc. Love of God means unending and uninterrupted service to Him, and that principle is found in all religious traditions.

Chapter Two

THE SOUL'S PURPOSE IN THE MATERIAL WORLD

DEVOTEE: According to Jewish understanding, what is the soul's purpose for being in the material world?

RABBI: Eleazar put the following question to R. Simeon. "Since it is known to God that men will die, why does He send souls down into this world?" He answered, "This question has been discussed many times by the teachers, and they have answered it thus. God sends souls to this world to declare His glory and takes them back afterwards..." [The Zohar II 235a][ Prov. V,15]

DEVOTEE: According to the Vedic understanding, the Lord does not actually put us here to declare His glories. Rather, we have fallen into this world because of our envy of the Supreme Lord. However, now that we are here, we may return to the Lord by purifying our consciousness by glorifying the Lord's names, fame, pastimes, paraphernalia, and devotees. There are also a few special souls who are sent here by the Lord to preach His glories for the benefit of mankind. Those devotees are very confidential servants of the Lord and cannot be compared to the ordinary sinful living entities that are forced to suffer in this world. By the influence of those great souls, many others become inspired to glorify the Lord, serve Him, and thus elevate themselves to the transcendental platform.

The material world serves two functions. The first function is to give those souls who want to enjoy their lives separately from the Lord a stage on which they can attempt to act out their fantasies. The second function of this world is to give the souls who have become frustrated with material enjoyment the opportunity to engage in devotional service to God and thus elevate themselves back to the Lord's eternal abode.

RABBI: Many people do not readily obey the laws of God unless they are fearful of the consequences of disobeying those laws. Therefore, the Jewish scriptures emphasize serving God out of fear. Unfortunately, people who resent this approach may reject our religion. What mood of worship do the Vedas embrace?

DEVOTEE: The Vedas also warn us of the severe consequences of disobeying the laws of God. But they also offer a very practical approach, which attracts almost everyone. the Karma Kanda section of the Vedas deal with offering materialists the means by which they can satisfy their material dreams without further binding themselves to this world. By striving for material enjoyment according to Vedic karma-kanda (fruitive) rituals, a person can gradually elevate himself to the pure platform. Ultimately, the real purpose of the Vedas is to elevate a person back to Godhead. The Bhagavad-gita says, "All purposes served by a small well can at once be served by a great reservoir of water. Similarly, all the purposes of the Vedas can be served to one who knows the purpose behind them." [Bg.2.46] All Vedic rituals are meant to lead us to the path of pure devotion. We are safe as long as we do not forget that the ultimate purpose of those rituals is to help us surrender to the Lord.

Chapter Three

GURU AND RABBI

DEVOTEE: In Vedic culture, spiritual knowledge is passed from the guru to his disciples. How is Jewish knowledge preserved and disseminated?

RABBI: In Judaism, knowledge is also passed from the rabbi to his students, but not everyone is qualified to become a student. "As a matter of law, the sages state that these mysteries 'cannot even be taught to a single individual, unless he is wise enough to understand with his own knowledge.' Even in such a case, the complete tradition was only given over to the head of the group, and he would then only instruct those whom he saw fit. Only individuals possessing the highest qualities of scholarship and piety would be admitted to the circle of initiates." [Introduction to the Bahir, Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan]

DEVOTEE: In Vedic culture, although a guru would speak to whoever wanted to learn the Vedic science, he was traditionally very selective whom he would initiate as his disciple. He would only accept those persons who qualified themselves by humble submission and service. Lord Krishna states in the Bhagavad-gita, "Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master, inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth." [Bg. 4:34]

RABBI: It is also stated that "One who reaches the highest level cannot reveal it to anyone. All he can do is give over the keys, so that the enlightened individual can open the gates which are sealed to exclude the unworthy." [Meditation and Kabbalah, p 79]

DEVOTEE: In Vedic culture, the self-realized guru would distribute the process of devotional service which was so powerful that under his able guidance anyone could purify himself and perfect his life. Still, the ultimate success of the student depended upon his own willingness to follow the process given by the guru.

Chapter Four

A GODLY KING

RABBI: In the Torah, Moses describes to the people some of the requirements of a king. One of the requirements is, "When [the king] is established on his royal throne, he must write a copy of the Torah as a scroll edited by the Levitical priests. [This scroll] must always be with him, and he shall read from it all the days of his life. He will then learn to be in awe of God his Lord, and carefully keep every word of the Torah and these rules. He will then [also] not begin to feel superior to his brethren, and he will not stray from the mandate to the right or the left. He and his descendants will thus have a long reign in the midst of Israel." [Torah, Duet., Shoftim 17:18] Do the Vedas give any description of the qualities of a king similar to these?

DEVOTEE: The Vedic kings were known as Rajarsis, or saintly kings. The Vedas describe the qualities of a saintly king. A saintly king rules the citizens on behalf of God, his primary goal being to help his citizens gradually elevate themselves on the path of spiritual life. The saintly kings were very learned in the scriptures, and, although very powerful, they always felt themselves to be the insignificant servants of God. One very good example of a saintly king was Dhruva Maharaja who is described in the Srimad Bhagavatam. "Dhruva Maharaja was endowed with all godly qualities; he was very respectful to the devotees of the Supreme Lord and very kind to the poor and innocent, and he protected religious principles. With all these qualifications, he was considered to be the direct father of all the citizens." [Bhag. 4.12.12]

Chapter Five

TRANSLATING SCRIPTURES

AND UNDERSTANDING THEIR ESSENCE

DEVOTEE: Rabbi, based on this passage that I will read from the translator's Introduction to the Torah, it appears that due to the complexity of translating the Torah from Hebrew, it must be very difficult for the common Jew to ascertain it's true meaning. It says, "Another problem in translating the Torah is that of sentence structure. Clearly, the sentence structure of Hebrew three thousand years ago bears little, if any, resemblance to that of any modern language. Therefore, if one slavishly adheres to the original sentence structure in translating, he will often produce a result very different from that intended by the original. At best, many passages will be difficult, if not impossible, to understand. Moreover, the translator will sometimes have to use many words to translate a single word, while at other times he will have to use a single word to translate many. He will have to add and delete words so that the concept may be clearly expressed in the language into which he is translating."

RABBI: It is true that very few people are qualified to directly translate the Jewish scriptures and to thereby directly ascertain their essence. But since the conclusion of the Torah is to love God, and that does not require any scholarship, even the common people can understand that essence based on bona fide translations and explanations of others.

DEVOTEE: Rabbi, are you telling me that as a Jew, if I actually love God, I will be able to understand the real meaning of the Torah, the Zohar, and the Bahir?

RABBI: Yes that is correct.

DEVOTEE: In Vedic culture, spiritual qualifications of the person translating or explaining transcendental literatures are considered even more important than their scholarship. Most of the Vedic scriptures were originally recorded in Sanskrit, and in Sanskrit, sometimes a single word can have dozens of meanings according to the context. How then can the translator be sure that he is giving the true meaning? He must understand the essence and goal of all the Vedas, and then naturally he will be able to choose the correct word meanings. In other words, if he is firmly fixed in his understanding, realization and practical application that one must surrender everything to the pure service of the Lord, then he will be able to understand the descriptions that the scriptures give about the Lord, His service, His instructions, etc. To have a pure service attitude towards God means to have pure love for the Lord.

Chapter Six

FREE WILL AND DESTINY

DEVOTEE: Rabbi, what is the extent of our free will, and to what magnitude are our lives controlled by destiny?

RABBI: In the Torah, in his final discourse, Moses said to his people, "See! Today I have set before you [a free choice] between life and good [on one side], and death and evil [on the other]. I have commanded you today to love God your Lord, to walk in His paths, and to keep His commandments, decrees and laws. You will then survive and flourish, and God your Lord will bless you in the land that you are about to occupy. But if your heart turns aside and you do not listen, you will be led astray to bow down to foreign gods and worship them. I am warning you today, that [if you do that] you will be utterly exterminated. You will not last very long in the land which you are crossing the Jordan and coming to occupy. I call heaven and earth as witnesses! Before you I have placed life and death, the blessing and the curse. You must choose life, so that you and your descendants will survive. [You must thus make the choice] to love God your Lord, to obey Him, and to attach yourself to Him. This is your sole means of survival and long life when you dwell in the land that God swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, [promising] that He would give it to them." [Torah, Duet. Netzavim, 30:15-20] In other words, Moses is explaining that God is giving the people the free will to act as they like, but is warning them that if they act wrongly, against the will of the Lord, they will suffer the results of their misdeeds. The people are to that extent the controllers of their destiny.

DEVOTEE: The Vedic understanding is similar. The Supreme Lord directs us what to do and what not to do. If we act against the directions of Lord Krsna, we become fully responsible for the results of our actions. Ignorance of the law is no excuse to be saved from punishment. According to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, "Without knowing the subtle laws of nature, if we tried to justify all our deeds as influenced by the will of the Personality of Godhead, we would be attempting to bring partiality, inebriety, and gracelessness into the acts of the all-good Personality of Godhead. It should never be imagined that various mundane discrepancies arise by the will of the Personality of Godhead--that some are happy by His will and others are unhappy by His will. Such differences in the world are due to the proper or improper use of free will enjoyed by the individual living entity." [Message of Godhead]

RABBI: These are very good points. I have personally seen many times, that when a man is in extreme difficulty and does not have a good understanding that his difficulties are ultimately due to his own misdeeds, he loses his faith in God. He may actually become an atheist because he cannot accept that a good and loving God would allow an apparently good person to suffer. Many people give up their religious faiths, including Judaism, due to an imperfect or incomplete understanding of free will and destiny.

DEVOTEE: Yes Rabbi. It is so very important that everyone understands the basic principles of free will and destiny from a theistic perspective. The Vedic understanding of karma and of reincarnation are very important to the theistic understanding of why things happen they way that they do. If we cannot explain free will and destiny theistically, then we will concoct an atheistic philosophy to explain it. To follow an atheistic path ruins our chances to develop love for God and to return to His eternal abode. Karma is an inescapable subtle material law of actions and reactions. For every action that man performs, there will be a perfectly proportionate reaction. Often times the results will come from a previous life's activities and he cannot determine what good or evil he may have done to cause his present life's condition. Ultimately, we should free ourselves from all material reactions by engaging in only those activities that will directly lead us back to God. Such activities are called transcendental and are performed only to please the Lord. Transcendental activities do not bind us to this world but liberate us, whereas material actions, those done against the will of the Lord will certainly bind us to this world of suffering.

Chapter Seven

INTOXICATION AND SEXUAL ENJOYMENT

RABBI: The Jewish scriptures state, "Drink no wine nor strong drink, thou nor thy sons, etc." R. Judah said: 'The fact that this injunction was given to the priests shows that Nadab and Abihu were under the influence of wine.' R. Hiya adduced here the verse: "Wine rejoiceth the heart of man" (Ps. CIV, 15). 'If, he said, the priest is supposed to be joyful more than other men, why is he forbidden wine, which creates joy and smiles? The truth is that wine rejoices at first and saddens afterwards, and the priest must be glad throughout." [Zohar IV, 39a] What do the Vedas say regarding the use of intoxication?

DEVOTEE: The use of intoxication was greatly discouraged in Vedic culture and was completely forbidden for the saintly priestly class. According to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, "The Vaisnavas [devotees of Krsna] are trained to become freed from the four kinds of sinful activities--illicit sex, indulgence in intoxicants, gambling and eating animal foodstuffs. No one can be on the brahminical platform without having these preliminary qualifications, and without becoming a qualified Brahman, one cannot become a pure devotee." [Bhag 10.86.59, Purport] Intoxication puts one in the mode of ignorance, and in the mode of ignorance one cannot see things as they are. How then can one act properly if he cannot properly perceive reality, and how can a saintly person give proper guidance if he is unable to understand reality?

RABBI: What do the Vedas say about sexual enjoyment?

DEVOTEE: The whole purpose of Vedic culture is to help everyone in the society to gradually give up all kinds of material enjoyment and to become lovers of God, Krsna. Although sex life is considered one of the highest forms of enjoyment in this world, the Vedas teach gradual detachment from such indulgence to help people to direct their attention toward the higher goal of self-realization. In the four orders of social life, brahmacari, grahastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa, the only one that allowed any intimate relationship between man and woman is the grahastha ashram. Even within the grahastha ashram, sex is allowed between a man and his wife only once a month and then only to conceive children who are to be raised to be God conscious. Any indulgence beyond that constitutes illicit sex and is most detrimental to one's ability to advance on the spiritual path. Definitely, there is no provision permitting either homosexuality or relationships with animals.

RABBI: In the Torah, Moses, repeating the commandments of God, said, "Do not lie with a male as you would with a woman, since this is a disgusting perversion. Do not perform any sexual act with an animal, since it will defile you. A woman shall [likewise] not give herself to an animal and allow it to mate with her. This utterly detestable perversion.... Thus, whenever anyone does any of these disgusting perversions, [all] the people involved shall be cut off [spiritually] from the midst of their people." [Torah, Leviticus, Acharey Moth, 18:22, 23, 29]

DEVOTEE: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam there is a description of the beginning of our present age, Kali-yuga, or the Age of Kali. It is described that the personality of Kali, who is in charge of this degraded age, is the accelerating agent for irreligious principles. He was allowed to reside in those places where there was intoxication, gambling, illicit connection with women, animal slaughter. Wherever these activities are present, the basic principles of religiosity, namely cleanliness, austerity, truthfulness and mercy, are gradually lost. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada writes in this regards, "By pride, either artificial or real, the resultant action of austerity is spoiled; by too much affection for female association, cleanliness is spoiled; by too much addiction to intoxication, mercy is spoiled; and by too much lying propaganda, truthfulness is spoiled."

Chapter Eight

BECOMING FEARLESS OF DEATH

DEVOTEE: Rabbi, we both agree that the souls in this world should be using their lives to glorify God. Yet everyone, good or bad, must eventually face death. Since God is all-powerful, it seems that by acting according to His desires we should be able to become free from fear, even the fear of death. Do the Jewish teachings describe different results at the time of death based on our individual life's activities, and can one truly become free from the fear of death?

RABBI: As you have suggested, God takes direct control of the lives of His servants, and thus their death is distinct from and superior to the death of ordinary persons who have not truly dedicated their lives to Him. It is stated, "It is the Destroying Angel who brings death to all people except those who die in the Holy Land, to whom death comes by the Angel of Mercy who holds sway there." But it is not that one really has to die within the holy land to be saved, for it is stated by R. Isaac: "This being the case, wherein lay the superiority of Moses, Aaron and Miriam, concerning whom it is written that they died "by the mouth of the Lord", meaning that their death was not brought about by the Destroying Angel? R Judah replied: "Truly, the greatness of these three and their superiority over all others is demonstrated by this, that although they met their death outside the Holy Land, they, unlike their contemporaries, were not brought to it by the Destroying Angel, but by the Holy One Himself." [The Zohar IV, 151a-151b].

DEVOTEE: There is also a holy place in India known as Vrindavan. This is the place where Lord Krsna appeared approximately 5,000 years ago. One of the characteristics of Vrindavan is that anyone who dies there is liberated and goes back to the eternal spiritual abode of Lord Krsna. But it is not that a person must die in Vrindavan in order to be liberated from the suffering of this world and go back to Godhead. Anyone, in any part of the creation, who always remembers the Lord and engages in His service, becomes eligible to go back to Godhead at the end of this life. In the Bhagavad-gita, Lord Krsna also states, "He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. O son of Kunti, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes." [Bg. 9.31] A devotee, as mentioned in this verse, is one whose only interest is the service of the Lord. Also, in the Bhagavad-gita Lord Krsna states, "Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, become My devotee, offer obeisances to Me and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me." [Bg. 9.34]

RABBI: That is fascinating. Do the Vedic scriptures make reference to any personality corresponding to the Jewish "Angel of Death" who punishes the sinful after death? Is there any instance in Vedic history when a person was saved from eternal suffering by becoming a devotee of God as indicated in the Bhagavad-gita verses you quoted?

DEVOTEE: Yes! There is a great devotee of the Lord, a demigod (angel), known as Yamaraja. "Yamaraja" literally means "the Lord of Death." As we discussed earlier, the Vedic understanding of demigods is very similar to the Jewish concept of angels. The service that Yamaraja does for Lord Krsna is to judge the sinful persons and punish them in a way exactly proportionate to the sins they have committed during their life. This punishment is generally very severe, but is never eternal suffering. They are punished so that they will eventually be able to correct themselves of their sinful mentality and develop love of God.

There is a long history in the Sixth Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam about Ajamila. Very briefly, the history goes like this. Ajamila had been a very good religious person in his youth, but somehow or other he became attracted to a prostitute. Thus he spent many years living with her, procreating many children and committing all kinds of sinful acts to maintain his household. Finally, when he was about to die he saw the Yamadutas, or the assistants of Yamaraja who are deputed to take all sinful souls to Yamaraja for judgment. Out of great fear upon seeing the Yamadutas, Ajamila cried out to his youngest son who he had named Narayana (a name of God). Immediately, the Vishnudutas (representatives of God) came and opposed the Yamadutas and would not allow them to take Ajamila away for punishment. They said that because Ajamila cried out the holy name of Narayana he had become free from the results of his sins and could not be touched by the Yamadutas. Even at the moment of death if one fully takes shelter of God he will be saved, but we should not risk waiting until that final moment to prepare ourselves.

The tendency is to become bewildered at the moment of death and for the mind to become filled with that which was most dear to us during our life. We must try to make God the most cherished to us during this life and that will make us fearless both within this life and at the moment of death. Even in the case of Ajamila, he was not thinking of God when he called out to Narayana. He was thinking of his dear little son who he had named Narayana. Ajamila was very fortunate that the Yamadutas could not take him to Yamaraja for punishment, but he also could not go back to Godhead at that moment. He was given a longer duration of life, and remembering his life's sinful activities and his encounter with the Yamadutas, he most seriously took to the path of devotion and perfected his life. We should not expect such good fortune if we do not seriously take to the path of spiritual life.

Chapter Nine

THE LORD IN THE HEART

DEVOTEE: Rabbi, many people say that God is in the heart. Do Jews believe in a personal form of God who remains with us within our heart?

RABBI: When the soul is about to descend to this world, it first goes down to the terrestrial Garden of Eden and sees there the glory of the souls of the righteous, and then goes down to Gehinnom and sees the wicked who cry "Woe, woe", and find no compassion. That holy form (God) stands by him until he emerges into the world, after which it keeps him company and grows up with him." [The Zohar 43b] [KI TAZRIA (LEVITICUS)]

DEVOTEE: The Lord says in the Bhagavad-gita "Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul." [Bg. 13.23] In his explanation of this verse, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada said, "Because the Paramatma is the Supreme Lord, He is present within to sanction the individual soul's desire for material enjoyment. Without the sanction of the Supreme Soul, the individual soul cannot do anything. The individual is bhukta, or the sustained, and the Lord is bhokta, or the maintainer. There are innumerable living entities and He is staying in them as a friend." The Supersoul remains with the living entity, always trying to convince him from within the heart that there is no real happiness in the material world and that real happiness is available only by engaging in devotional service to the Lord. As the individual soul gradually accepts the Lord's advice from within the heart, and from without, from the scriptures and the bona fide guru, he begins to advance toward a blissful, eternal life of knowledge.

Chapter Ten

REINCARNATION

DEVOTEE: Do the Jews believe in reincarnation and the possibility that we can take birth in an animal body?

RABBI: Although not commonly discussed, most Rabbis accept reincarnation (or transmigration of the soul). In the Zohar, R Simeon says, "that verse Ex. XX, 10 assuredly speaks of the soul of the Righteous One, teaching us that even though she may have to undergo transmigration, even in a manservant, or a maidservant, or an animal, in it thou shall do no manner of work."

DEVOTEE: The Vedas teach of two important concepts in spiritual science--karma and transmigration of the soul. Karma means that for whatever action we perform, we will suffer or enjoy a proportionate reaction. And reincarnation or transmigration of the soul means that the soul accepts one material body after another according to how one's life is led. The Bhagavad-gita teaches that whatever one is thinking at the time of death will determine the next body. [Bg. 8.6] Therefore, if we have developed an animalistic mentality at the time of death, the soul will accept an animal body just suiting that mentality. If we have been sinful during one lifetime, then we will suffer the reactions to those sins in our next lifetime. That is why some people are born into very nice situations and others are born into extreme difficulty. If we accept that God is all powerful and all good, then without accepting the principle of karma and reincarnation, there is no theistic way to explain why things happen the way they do in this world.

RABBI: Actually, many people give up their faith in Judaism and other religions because they do not understand or agree with that important point.

Chapter Eleven

THE GARDEN OF EDEN AND VRINDAVAN

DEVOTEE: Rabbi, the Vedas clearly and explicitly describe the spiritual world, the eternal abode of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the activities of the Lord and His devotees there. Do the Jewish scriptures give us any information about the spiritual kingdom of God and what activities take place there?

RABBI: Yes, the Jewish scriptures do describe an eternal place where God takes pleasure in being with righteous souls. R. Simeon says in the Zohar that it is written: "King Solomon made him a palanquin (apiryon) of the trees of Lebanon. He made the pillars thereof of silver, the bottom thereof of gold, the covering of it of purple, the midst thereof being paved with love by the daughters of Jerusalem" [S.S. III, 9,10] Apiryon symbolizes the Palace below which is formed in the likeness of the Palace above. This the Holy one, blessed be He, calls 'The Garden of Eden,' for He created it in order to satisfy His own ardent desire for joyous and continual communion with the souls of the righteous who have their abode there-these being those souls who have no bodies in this world. These all ascend and are crowned in that place of perfect delight, and have each their appointed places from whence they can perceive the "loveliness of the Lord", and partake of all the delicious streams of pure balsam (aparsamon). This aparsamon symbolizes the hidden Supernal Palace, whereas apiryon is the Palace below." [Zohar 127a Terumah (Exodus)] In other words, there is a Garden of Eden in the eternal spiritual kingdom of God, and there is also a manifestation of the Garden of Eden that exists within the material world.

DEVOTEE: In the spiritual world, everything is self-effulgent and there is no need for the (*) sun, moon, nor electricity. There is a spiritual world where God and His devotees eternally enjoy together. The highest level of the spiritual realm is the spiritual planet known as Goloka Vrindavan. The spiritual world also exists within this material world. One such place is known as Vrindavan or Gokula Vrindavan. When Lord Krsna comes to this world, He does not come alone, but He brings with Him all of His associates and paraphernalia to perform loving pastimes with His devotees. Those who have become pure devotees of the Lord while in this material world, go back to the spiritual world to be permanently with God. According to Lord Krsna, in the Bhagavad-gita, "After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection." [Bg. 18.15]

RABBI: You said that the pure devotees of God engage in intimate loving pastimes with Him. The Jewish scriptures describe a dance that the Lord prepares for the righteous in the hereafter. It is stated, "In the hereafter, the Holy One, blessed be He, will arrange for a dance for the righteous in Gan Eden." [Every Man's Talmud, XI, VI}. Do the Vedas describe any dance arranged by God for the righteous?

DEVOTEE: Yes, there is an intimate dance known as the Rasa-Lila dance performed by the Lord and some of His intimate devotees. I will not go into detail about that dance, but the important point to understand here is that having become perfected souls, or souls who have revived their perfect love for Lord Krsna, they became qualified to associate intimately with the Lord in devotion. In fact, the Lord prefers to associate with His pure devotees in intimate loving relationships rather than to be worshiped in awe and reverence. But that is only for the perfected souls. Until we have perfected our lives, we must worship the Lord with great awe and reverence and strictly follow His laws.

RABBI: In reference to God's desire to associate with the righteous intimately it is described in the Jewish scriptures: "The Holy One, blessed be He, will walk with the righteous in Gan Eden in the Hereafter; and the righteous, on beholding Him, will retreat in terror before Him. But He will call to them, 'See, I am the same as you!'

The above statement is in the Torah, while also emphasizing the need to be extremely reverent and fearful of God. This seems to imply that in both Hinduism and Judaism the righteous, the pure in heart, can look forward to associating intimately with the Lord in the eternal spiritual realm.

DEVOTEE: As we are all pleasure seeking living entities, it is most important to understand that in the spiritual realm there is unlimited pleasure and variety. Otherwise, no one would want to go there. Generally, people think of the spiritual world as being impersonal or void, because they have a very vague idea, at best, of what really goes on there. If we do not understand what goes on in the spiritual world, our tendency may be to consider it similar to this temporary material world which is so full of miseries. Why would anyone want to practice religious or spiritual life seriously if they thought that it would lead them to another situation similar to what we presently experience? Therefore, the Vedas give vivid descriptions of the spiritual world, while teaching us the means by which we can qualify ourselves to return there. One picturesque description of the spiritual world is found in the Brahma-samhita, where it is stated, "I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, the first progenitor, who is tending the cows, yielding all desires, in abodes built with spiritual gems and surrounded by millions of purpose trees. He is always served with great reverence and affection by hundreds and thousands of goddesses of fortune." [Brahma-samhita 5.29]

RABBI: The Jewish scriptures state, "The virgins without number" are those angelic hosts of whom it is said, "Is there a number to his bands?" [Job.XXV, 3] Perhaps this Jewish reference is related to the goddesses of fortune mentioned in the verse you just quoted.

* Also New Testament quote Rev. 22: 5:

Chapter Twelve

ISRAEL

DEVOTEE: What is the meaning of the name Israel?

RABBI: This must be one of the most esoteric questions you could ask. According to the early Kabbalists, the 231 gates are alluded to in the name Israel. In Hebrew, Israel is spelled YisraEl, which literally means, "there are 231." "The Midrash states that at the beginning of creation, 'Israel rose in thought,' The name Israel thus alludes to the fact that creation took place through these 231 gates. According to the later Kabbalists, those 231 gates are what remained in the Vacated Space that preceded creation." [Sefer Yetzirah 2:4]

DEVOTEE: Your mention of Israel as existing as the vacated space preceding creation is interesting. The Vedas also describe the unmanifested material energy, known in Sanskrit as pradhana. It is from this energy that the whole material creation becomes manifest. You said that at the beginning of creation, "Israel rose in thought". The Vedas describe how everything is manifested from subtle to gross. The subtlest thing in the material creation is the false ego or the material conception of life. In other words, from that original misconception that life comes from matter, and under the influence of the three modes of material nature, the entire gross and subtle elements of the material world become manifest. This is described in the thirteenth chapter of the Bhagavad-gita.

I am also looking at the word Israel from another perspective. Israel, in a broad sense seems to refer to the entire material creation. On that basis, "Israelites" referred to throughout the Torah could, in a broader sense, be referring to much more than the multitudes of people who Moses led out of Egypt by God's order. It could be pertaining to all people in this world because all people are expected to follow the laws of God and to return to God's abode. Regardless of whether one's religion is Jewish, Hinduism, Christianity, etc., he is meant to follow the laws of God. God loves all living entities in this world, not just those who may designate themselves as belonging to a particular religious path. What do you think, Rabbi?

RABBI: Yes, I agree. God's love and mercy are unlimited, and He would certainly not restrict that mercy to a particular group of people. You should be aware that Israel is also another name for the Bride referenced to in the Song of Songs, as well as being the same as the letter He in YHVH.

Chapter Thirteen

THE LORD'S FORMS AND INCARNATIONS

DEVOTEE: The Vedic scriptures give voluminous information about various incarnations of the Lord, describing their names, activities, color, appearance and so on. For example, Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu's future appearance was so described: "When Gargamuni was performing the name-giving ceremony for Krsna and knowing of the future appearance of Lord Caitanya, he predicted, "This boy Krsna has three other colors-white, red, and yellow as He appears in the different ages. Now He has appeared in a transcendental blackish color." [Cc. Adi 3.35,36] Lord Krsna had previously appeared in the colors of red and white, and He would later appear in the color yellow as Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu. Are there any similar descriptions in the Jewish scriptures?

RABBI: Yes, although I do not know of any descriptions of the activities of God given in as much detail as you describe from the Vedas, there are some references to His colors. In the Zohar, R. Eleazar says, "It is written, 'And he brought me thither, and behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; [Ezek. XL, 3] "Ezekiel saw in this prophetical vision a 'man' but not 'a man clothed in linen' [Dan. X, 5]. for it is only when the angel is on an errand of severity that he is called 'a man clothed in linen'. Otherwise, he assumes various guises, appears in various attire conforming to the message he bears at that time. Now, in the present vision 'his appearance was like the appearance of brass.'

God appeared to Moses and his followers on Mount Sinai in the form a burning bush. According to R. Abba, "When the smoke came out of Mount Sinai a fire ascended enveloped therein, so that its flames were of a blue color. They flared high and dwindled again, and the smoke emitted all the aromas of Paradise, displaying itself in the colors of white, red, and black, as it says..." Perhaps these colors can be related to the same colors of God as mentioned in the Vedas.

DEVOTEE: The Jewish scriptures are very difficult for me to understand with so much written allegorically. The Vedas are very direct and to the point. It is described in the Vedas that although there are many different incarnations of the Lord appearing throughout the ages of universal time, the appearance of Lord Krsna includes within it all the other incarnations.

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada says, " All the incarnations of the Lord, including the Lord Himself, descend on the different planets of the material world as also in different species of life to fulfill particular missions. Sometimes He comes Himself and sometimes His different plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions or His differentiated portions directly or indirectly empowered by Him, descend on this material world to execute certain specific functions. Originally the Lord is full of all opulences, all prowess, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation. When they are partly manifested through the plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions, it should be noted that certain manifestations of His different powers are required for those particular functions. When in the room small electric bulbs are displayed, it does not mean that the electric powerhouse is limited by the small bulbs. The same powerhouse can supply power to operate large-scale industrial dynamos with greater volts. Similarly, the incarnations of the Lord display limited powers because so much power is needed at that particular time. [Bhag. 1:3:28, Purport]

Chapter Fourteen

THE DEVASTATING FLOOD

RABBI: The Torah describes a devastating flood brought by God to destroy the sinful persons of the world who had refused to follow His laws. It is said by God to Noah, "The end of all flesh has come before Me. The world is filled with (man's) crime. I will therefore destroy them with the earth. Make yourself an ark of cypress wood. Divide the ark into compartments. Caulk the inside and outside with pitch and for I Myself am bringing the flood. Water shall be on the earth to destroy from under the heavens all flesh having in it a breath of life. All that is on land will die. But I will keep My pledge that you will come into the ark. You will be together with your sons, your wife, and your sons' wives." [Torah, Genesis, Noah 25.13-18] In the Vedic philosophy are there any descriptions of a devastating flood like this?

DEVOTEE: Yes. According to the Vedas, there was not only one great flood, but there are thousands of them throughout the existence of the universe, they normally start at the beginning of Lord Brahma's night.

RABBI: Do the Vedas describe any personality like Noah being saved from the devastation?

DEVOTEE: The Bhagavat Purana or Srimad-Bhagavatam gives a description of an inundation that occurred many millions of years ago in connection with the Matsya avatar, the Lord's fish incarnation. Briefly, there was a king who was a great devotee of the Supreme Lord, and the Lord chose to show him some special favor. Like Noah, King Satyavrata was forewarned about a universal devastation. In this history, there was also a large boat, which was sent by the Supreme Lord to King Satyavrata. The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: "O King who can subdue your enemies, on the seventh day from today the three worlds-Bhuh, Bhuvaù and Svaù-will all merge into the water of inundation. When all the three worlds merge into the water, a large boat sent by Me will appear before you. Thereafter, O King, you shall collect all types of herbs and seeds and load them on that great boat. Then, accompanied by the seven sages and surrounded by all kinds of living entities, you shall get aboard that boat, and without moroseness you shall easily travel with your companions on the ocean of inundation, the only illumination being the effulgence of the great sages." [Bhag 8.24.32-35]

RABBI: We have been discussing many similarities between the Jewish and Hindu theologies. Considering that the passage of time and the development of various cultures can lead to variations in historical accounts, perhaps both of these descriptions refer to the same event. In both accounts, a God conscious personality, accompanied by other spiritually elevated persons, and plants and animals of various species, all take shelter of a large boat or ark to be saved from a great inundation. But I am concerned that these two descriptions appear to have taken place at times in history at least tens of millions of years apart. Do you have any thoughts in that regard?

DEVOTEE: It is quite possible that the Vedic description described in the Srimad Bhagavatam is a different incident than the history of Noah's ark described in the Torah. As I mentioned earlier, the Vedas give information of innumerable inundations during the existence of the universe. I think that the most important consideration is not whether these two particular histories are exactly the same, but to understand their similar purposes and the way the Lord reciprocates with His devotees. The Lord promised Noah that He would protect Him and the others who boarded the ark. Noah was obviously a very godly person so the Lord was protecting His devotee servant Noah and his family while annihilating the sinful people of the world. Similarly, while the Lord arranged for a gigantic inundation during the time of King Satyavrata, He gave protection to the king and other saintly persons with him. In the Bhagavad-gita, Lord Krsna says, "Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion, at that time I descend Myself. To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium." [Bg. 4.7-8]

RABBI: A few minutes ago, you mentioned something that seemed very unusual. You mentioned a fish incarnation of God called Matsya avatar. Are you suggesting that God appeared as a fish? We discussed earlier that man may take his birth in a lower species of life, but why would God come like that?

DEVOTEE: The Vedas explain that part of the greatness of the Lord is that He is always transcendental. When a soul who has a human body misuses that valuable human form he may take his next birth as an animal. When he has that animal form, he is forced to remain in very low consciousness. On the other hand, when God appears in an animal form, He retains all the unlimited power and abilities of God. He is not reduced in any way. He sometimes appears in an animal form by His Own will to perform a particular activity. In the case of the fish incarnation, He appeared to protect King Satyavrata during the great universal inundation since a fish is a naturally expert swimmer. If He so desired, He could have appeared in any form to accomplish the same feat.

RABBI: Although the form of God is not described in the Torah in connection with the great flood, I can understand that He was actually present. It is significant that He chose to give protection to His pure servant, Noah and his family while killing everyone else on earth. God did not need to use a flood to kill all the sinful people. He could have accomplished that within a moment by any means.

DEVOTEE: That is also confirmed by the Lord in the Bhagavad-gita: "All of them as they surrender unto Me I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prithä." [Bg. 4.11]

Chapter Fifteen

METATRON AND MAHA-VISHNU

RABBI: It is said that a personality named Metatron cooperates with God to teach the young. While God devotes the last three hours of the day to this work, Metatron is in charge during the remainder of the day. (A.Z. 3b) [Everyman's Talmud, II, III] Do the Vedas give any information about such a personality?

DEVOTEE: The Vedas inform us of one plenary expansion of Lord Krsna named Mahä-Vishnu. In the creative process, it is from Mahä-Vishnu that all of the universes emanate, and within those universes that the living entities, like us, are struggling for existence. The purpose of this world is ultimately to help the envious living entities to become detached from the desire for material enjoyment and to revive their love for God. Through His creative functions, Mahä-Vishnu actually teaches the "young" detachment from material life and attachment towards the Lord's loving devotional service.

RABBI: I do not understand. According to the Vedas, can you explain further how exactly is it that Mahä-Vishnu is cooperating with God to teach the young?

DEVOTEE: As we had discussed before, the Vedas clearly teach that we are not the material body but the soul within. Young and old in this connection have nothing to do with the age of the body, because the soul is eternal and unchanging. "The young" refers to almost all living entities in the material world in any species of life. We are considered young in realization of God until we have developed love for God. Mahä-Vishnu helps to teach the "young" to become detached from the desire to enjoy this world separately from the Lord's service, and to simultaneously help them to revive their love for Lord Krsna. He does this by creating all the material universes, within which the living entities are struggling hard for material existence. As we struggle in ignorance to find some enjoyment, we gradually become frustrated. In our frustration we naturally become a little detached from material existence, and the Lord in the heart, an expansion of Mahä-Vishnu known as Ksirodakasayi Vishnu, directs us from within to search out a bona fide guru. The guru then teaches his submissive disciples the spiritual process to revive their natural love for God. In this way, Mahä-Vishnu cooperates with the God (Lord Krsna) to teach the young.

Actually, Mahä-Vishnu is another form of God, but whereas the original personality of Godhead, Lord Krsna, spends His time enjoying with His pure devotees in the spiritual world, so His expansions like Mahä-Vishnu, work directly to help the living entities to develop detachment from material enjoyment and attachment to Lord Krsna. Those forms of Vishnu known as the Puruña incarnations, namely Mahä-Visnu, Garbhodakasayi Vishnu, and Ksirodakasayi Vishnu, all function within this world to teach the young and spiritually immature to mature in their realization of God. There is really no difference between these three forms of Vishnu except the functions they perform and the way that they may change Their forms to perform those functions.

RABBI: Your explanation of Mahä-Vishnu and His expansions is interesting. This seems to corroborate a statement found about Metatron in Origins of the Kabbalah where it is said, "Metatron is therefore not a proper name at all but a designation for the whole category of celestial powers performing a mission."[Origins of the Kabbalah, III, 6]