Eatint
meat
The point is: Meat eating is permitted if one is in a life
and death situation.
This raises some very interesting
points. I was in Mayapura in February
1998, when Gopiparanadhana prabhu gave a Bhagavatam class. He had managed to steer the topic toward
varnasrama, which he was very interested in, as he was on the Social
Development commission.
An Indian lady raised her hand and said,
"You are talking about varnasrama -- does that mean we will allow people
in our society who eat meat?" He
responded, "Well, we already do.
They are called 'life members.'
There is no rule that a life member cannot eat meat, and some of them
do. But we are trying to give them a
chance to be involved in Krsna consciousness.
Varnasrama would simply mean it was more regulated."
So there are definitely good arguments
for using varnasrama to incorporate all different kinds of people, even those
who eat meat.
But, I don't think that at this point we
should pretend that how this is to be done is clear. Sometimes you will read quotes from Srila
Prabhupada that say meat eating is okay for ksatriyas and sudras. Other times he says that even a ksatriya should
not eat meat. Sometimes he says that
eating meat offered to Kali is alright, and at other times he says there is no
possibility of spiritual advancement for those who eat meat even if it is
offered to the demigods. So, I think we
make a very great mistake if we pretend that Prabhupada's answer is clearly
defined one way or the other.
I would think that in a varnasrama
college or in a varnasrama community this issue should be carefully discussed
by people who can do so without becoming hysterical and emotional about either
option (guided by sober brahmanas). Only
then can the correct decision for that community be reached.
And for those of us who have already
taken a vow against meat eating, it seems clear that we must do our utmost to
honor that vow -- including developing cow protection now, so that we don't
have to ponder whether or not to eat a squirrel a year from now.
So Srila Prabhupada has definitely given
some leeway here on the possibility of eating meat -- especially for those who
have not yet taken any vow that they will not do so. (Life members have not
taken any such vow.)
Nevertheless we must always carefully
bear in mind his many cautions about the spiritual hazards of meat eating, such
as the following:
Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1: Chapter
Three, Text 24
PURPORT
Then, in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the
Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Anjana, in the province of Gaya,
just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theist.
PURPORT
Lord Buddha, a powerful incarnation of the Personality of Godhead, appeared
in the province of Gaya (Bihar) as the son of Anjana, and he preached his own conception
of nonviolence and deprecated even the animal sacrifices sanctioned in the
Vedas. At the time when Lord Buddha appeared, the people in general were atheistic
and preferred animal flesh to anything else. On the plea of Vedic sacrifice,
every place was practically turned into a slaughterhouse, and animal-killing
was indulged in unrestrictedly.
Lord Buddha preached nonviolence, taking
pity on the poor animals. He preached that he did not believe in the tenets of
the Vedas and stressed the adverse psychological effects incurred by
animal-killing. Less intelligent men of the age of Kali, who had no faith in
God, followed his principle, and for the time being they were trained in moral
discipline and nonviolence, the preliminary steps for proceeding further on the
path of God realization.
He deluded the atheists because such
atheists who followed his principles did not believe in God, but they kept
their absolute faith in Lord Buddha, who himself was the incarnation of God.
Thus the faithless people were made to believe in God in the form of Lord
Buddha. That was the mercy of Lord Buddha: he made the faithless faithful to
him.
Killing of animals before the advent of Lord Buddha was the most
prominent feature of the society. People claimed that these were Vedic
sacrifices. When the Vedas are not accepted through the authoritative disciplic
succession, the casual readers of the Vedas are misled by the flowery language
of that system of knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gita a comment has been made on
such foolish scholars (avipascitah).
The foolish scholars of Vedic literature
who do not care to receive the transcendental message through the
transcendental realized sources of disciplic succession are sure to be
bewildered. To them, the ritualistic ceremonies are considered to be all in
all. They have no depth of knowledge. According to the Bhagavad-gita (15.15),
vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah: the whole system of the Vedas is to lead one
gradually to the path of the Supreme Lord. The whole theme of Vedic literature
is to know the Supreme Lord, the individual soul, the cosmic situation and the
relation between all these items. When the relation is known, the relative
function begins, and as a result of such a function the ultimate goal of life
or going back to Godhead takes place in the easiest manner. Unfortunately, unauthorized
scholars of the Vedas become captivated by the purificatory ceremonies only,
and natural progress is thereby checked.
To such bewildered persons of atheistic propensity, Lord Buddha is the emblem
of theism. He therefore first of all wanted to check the habit of animal-killing.
The animal-killers are dangerous elements on the path going back to Godhead. There
are two types of animal-killers. The soul is also sometimes called the
"animal" or the living being. Therefore, both the slaughterer of
animals and those who have lost their identity of soul are animal-killers.
Maharaja Pariksit said that only the animal-killer cannot relish the transcendental
message of the Supreme Lord.
Therefore if people are to be educated
to the path of Godhead, they must be taught first and foremost to stop the
process of animal-killing as above mentioned.
It is nonsensical to say that
animal-killing has nothing to do with spiritual realization. By this dangerous
theory many so-called sannyasis have sprung up by the grace of Kali-yuga who
preach animal-killing under the garb of the Vedas. The subject matter has
already been discussed in the conversation between Lord Caitanya and Maulana
Chand Kazi Shaheb. The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different
from the unrestricted animal-killing in the slaughterhouse.
Because the asuras or the so-called
scholars of Vedic literatures put forward the evidence of animal-killing in the
Vedas, Lord Buddha superficially denied the authority of the Vedas. This
rejection of the Vedas by Lord Buddha was adopted in order to save people from
the vice of animal-killing as well as to save the poor animals from the
slaughtering process of their big brothers who clamor for universal
brotherhood, peace, justice and equity.
There is no justice when there is
animal-killing. Lord Buddha wanted to stop it completely, and therefore his
cult of ahimsa was propagated not only in India but also outside the country.
Technically Lord Buddha's philosophy is
called atheistic because there is no acceptance of the Supreme Lord and because
that system of philosophy denied the authority of the Vedas. But that is an act
of camouflage by the Lord. Lord Buddha is the incarnation of Godhead. As such,
he is the original propounder of Vedic knowledge. He therefore cannot reject
Vedic philosophy. But he rejected it outwardly because the sura-dvisa, or the
demons who are always envious of the devotees of Godhead, try to support
cow-killing or animal-killing from the pages of the Vedas, and this is now
being done by the modernized sannyasis.
****************************
Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Nineteen, Text 36 :PURPORT
As we have repeatedly explained, due to a lack of qualified brahminical priests
in Kali-yuga, it is not possible to perform the ritualistic ceremonies recommended
in the Vedas.
...In Kali-yuga men all over the world
are very expert in opening slaughterhouses for killing animals, which they eat.
If the old ritualistic ceremonies were observed, people would be encouraged to
kill more and more animals. In Calcutta there are many butcher shops which keep
a deity of the goddess Kali, and animal-eaters think it proper to purchase
animal flesh from such shops in hope that they are eating the remnants of food
offered to goddess Kali. They do not know that goddess Kali never accepts
nonvegetarian food because she is the chaste wife of Lord Siva. Lord Siva is
also a great Vaisnava and never eats nonvegetarian food, and the goddess Kali
accepts the remnants of food left by Lord Siva. Therefore there is no
possibility of her eating flesh or fish. Such offerings are accepted by the
associates of goddess Kali known as bhutas, pisacas and Raksasas, and those who
take the prasada of goddess Kali in the shape of flesh or fish are not actually
taking the prasada left by goddess Kali, but the food left by the bhutas and
pisacas.
***********************
> "Everyone is inclined in this
age to eat meat and fish, drink liquor, and > indulge in sex life, but
according to the Vedic injunctions, sex is allowed > only in marriage, meat
eating is allowed only when the animal is killed and > offered before the
goddess Kali, and intoxication is allowed only in a > restricted way... The
word niyamyate indicates that all these things - namely > animal killing,
intoxication and sex - should be regulated." 4.26.7.
> "Sometimes ksatriyas go to the
forest to kill animals like deer because they > have to learn the art of
killing, and sometimes they eat the animals also. > Sudras, too, eat animals
such as goats... Those who desire to eat meat may > satisfy the demands of
their tongues by eating lower animals, but they should > never kill cows,
who are actually accepted as the mothers of human society > because they
supply milk." S.B. 6.4.9. > >
"Four kinds of sinful activities - associating with women for illicit sex,
> eating meat, intoxication and gambling - are allowed for the ksatriyas.
For > political reasons, sometimes they have to take to these sinful
activities. > Ksatriyas do not refrain from gambling. One vivid example is
the Pandavas." > S.B. 4.22.13
******************************
So, on one hand, varnasrama means to
include people from all walks of life and help bring them to Krsna
consciousness. So sometimes we need to
be a little bit liberal, as we are with some of our life members.
On the other hand, meat eating is such
an impediment to understanding Krsna that in general, our best course is to try
to get people to eat only Krsna prasadam as soon as possible.
Also in terms of prioritizing our social
arrangement, we need to think which is more important: Making arrangements so people can eat meat --
or making arrangements so people can protect cows.
People already know how to make some
arrangements to eat meat -- but if Krsna's devotees don't make some
arrangements to train and support devotees who are protecting cows, we may find
that in a couple years there are hardly any cows left.
And the final point here is that most of
the times that Prabhupada does make allowances for eating meat, it is for
ksatriyas and sudras. The example of Visvamitra
Muni is exceptional because it is an example of a brahmana who ate meat. In general Prabhupada has great disdain for
sannyasis who eat meat. They should be providing such good leadership and
guidance to the ksatriyas that society will protect cows, who will provide milk
and bulls to produce grain. Then there will be no need to even consider eating
meat.
As we approach varnasrama-dharma
implementation in a practicable manner it is important to remember that we are
doing so in order to engage as many humans as possible (Lord Caitanya's
para-upakara program) in this divine institution in order that they get on the
path of Krsna consciousness - bhakti yoga. Sudras, vaisyas and ksatriyas are
all effected by different modes of nature than brahmanas and therefore the guna
and karma daiva engagements and lifestyles will differ accordingly. Facility is
offered to them in the daiva varnasrama-dharma institution by means of
brahmanas performing their prescribed duties for different religious functions
such as sacrifices.
"One should not imitate another's
duty. A man who is by nature attracted
to the kind of work done by sudras should not artificially claim himself to be
a brahmana, although he may be born into a brahmana family. In this way, one should work according to his
own nature; no work is abominable, if performed in the service of the Supreme
Lord. The occupational duty of a
brahmana is certainly in the mode of goodness, but if a person is not by nature
in the mode of goodness, he should not imitate the occupational duty of a
brahmana. For a ksatriya or
administrator, there are so many abominable things; a ksatriya has to be
violent to kill his enemies, and sometimes a ksatriya has to tell lies for the
sake of diplomacy. Such violence and duplicity accompany political affairs, but
a ksatriya is not supposed to give up his occupational duty and try to perform
the duties of a brahmana. One should
act to satisfy the Supreme Lord... In the business field also, sometimes a
merchant has to tell so many lies to make a profit. If he does not do so, there can be no
profit. Sometimes a merchant say, ‘Oh,
my dear customer, for you I am making no profit', but one should know that
without profit a merchant cannot exist.
Therefore it should be taken as a simple lie if a merchant says that he
is not making a profit. But the merchant
should not think that because he is engaged in an occupation in which the
telling of lies is compulsory, he should give up his profession and pursue the
profession of a brahmana. That is not
recommended. ...The conclusion is that
everyone should be engaged according to the particular mode of nature he has
acquired, and he should decide to work only to serve the supreme cause of the
Supreme Lord." Bg. 18.47.
"There was a tailor who was a
meat-eater but was sewing garments for Srivas Thakur. The Lord, being merciful
to him, showed him His own form." CC Adi 17.23
"The meat-eaters are generally
called mlecchas. But all meat-eaters are
not mlecchas. Those who accept meat in
terms of scriptural injunctions are not mlecchas, but those who accept meat
without restriction are called mlecchas." S.B. 1.16.20.
"Everyone is inclined in this age
to eat meat and fish, drink liquor, and indulge in sex life, but according to
the Vedic injunctions, sex is allowed only in marriage, meat eating is allowed
only when the animal is killed and offered before the goddess Kali, and
intoxication is allowed only in a restricted way... The word niyamyate
indicates that all these things - namely animal killing, intoxication and sex -
should be regulated." 4.26.7.
"Sometimes ksatriyas go to the
forest to kill animals like deer because they have to learn the art of killing,
and sometimes they eat the animals also. Sudras, too, eat animals such as
goats... Those who desire to eat meat may satisfy the demands of their tongues
by eating lower animals, but they should never kill cows, who are actually
accepted as the mothers of human society because they supply milk." S.B. 6.4.9.
"Four kinds of sinful activities -
associating with women for illicit sex, eating meat, intoxication and gambling
- are allowed for the ksatriyas. For political reasons, sometimes they have to
take to these sinful activities. Ksatriyas do not refrain from gambling. One
vivid example is the Pandavas." S.B. 4.22.13
"Just like the ksatriya, they must
learn how to kill. So, practically they should go to the forest and kill some
animal, and if he likes he can eat also. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those
who are ksatriyas, they are allowed sometimes to eat meat....So for ksatriyas,
if they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they
must go to the forest and kill the animal.
.if some of the ksatriyas or the sudras
want to eat meat, this is our prescription - go to the forest, kill some
animals and eat them.
And the sudras, they also sometimes eat
meat, or the candalas.
The sudras, they can take a goat and
sacrifice it before the Deity of the goddess Kali and then they can eat. No one
should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat or wine. If one is adamant to
drink wine there is Durga puja, Candi puja. That means restriction. Under
certain conditions." SP MWC Vrin. ‘74
These
were prescribed responsibilities for ISKCON's leaders over 25 years ago given
by Srila Prabhupada in order to engage as many people as possible in Krsna's
eternal service. That is what preaching and leadership mean.
Are we going to continue to try to
change every sudra, vaisya and ksatriya into a brahmana? This program has thus
far proven unsuccessful for many, many excellent candidates of devotional
service to the Lord.
"Prabhupada: Everywhere, wherever,
Mayapura or anywhere. Question is that here it is clearly said, sve sve karmany
abhiratah. Brahmana has his duty, ksatriya has his duty, vaisya has his duty,
sudra has his duty. And if he performs his duty nicely, then he also becomes
perfect. So why artificially he should be called a brahmana? Let them do,
according to sastra, the work of sudra, or vaisya. He'll get the perfect.
Perfection is not checked. But why artificially he should be made a brahmana or
he should be made a sannyasi and fall down and become a ludicrous? That is the
point. Better let him live in his position and become perfect. That's good.
That looks very nice. And that is possible. That is possible.
Varnasramacaravata purusena parah puman visnur aradhyate."
"Prabhupada: Yes. In the... For the
big scale, this is required. In big scale you cannot make all of them as
brahmanas or sannyasis. No. That is not possible. This is small scale. How many
percentage of people of the world we are controlling? Very insignificant. But
if you want to make the whole human society perfect, then this Krsna
consciousness movement should be introduced according to the Krsna's
instruction, if you want to do it in a large scale for the benefit of the whole
human society. Now we are picking up some of them, best. That is another thing.
But Caitanya Mahaprabhu said para-upakara. Why a certain section should be
picked up? The whole mass of people will get the benefit of it. Then it is
required, systematic. Sve sve karmany abhiratah samsiddhim labhate narah.
Para-upakara means mass benefit, not there is certain section. Then we have to
introduce this varnasrama-dharma. It must be done perfectly, and it is possible
and people will be happy."
Visvamitra Muni ate dog flesh Re:
Alternate to eating rabbits
Below are some quotes where Srila
Prabhupada talks about Visvamitra Muni eating dog flesh in an emergency
situation. These quotes may be hot stuff
in about a year, when some devotees find they are unable to provide vegetarian
foodstuffs for themselves, due to the breakdown in international trade and the
consequent breakdown of petroleum-fueled agriculture. Vismamitra Muni is one of the 7 great sages
and is mentioned in the 8th canto and other places. I think one account says that he was present
in Lord Ramacandra's pastimes (arranged His wedding to Sita-devi) and Krsna's
and also Lord Caitanya's (under a different name?).
Following those quotes is the quote from
the 4th canto which describes Prthu Maharaja threatening to kill the Earth when
she had assumed the form of a cow. Prabhupada notes that in an emergency, the
government can arrange for the eating of the flesh of dried up cows -- if there
is no other food.
In an unforseen calamity, this kind of
situation may arise. Interestingly, insurance
agencies are announcing that they will not pay for claims from companies whose
computers break down because of Y2K.
Their argument: This is not an
unforseen calamity. You knew about this
danger for years, but you did nothing to prepare for it. We will not accept your claim that this is an
emergency.
One wonders, will Krsna's standards for
us be as strict as the insurance companies?
The point is: Meat eating is permitted if one is in a life
and death situation. But, beyond that,
ISKCON gets in a life and death situation because of Y2K, it will be because we
have criminally neglected one of the two pillars of spiritual progress: cow protection.
So when your temple president says,
"It's okay to eat meat -- Visvamitra Muni did it in an
emergency" just keep that thought
in mind. If we had actually done our
duty and protected the cows, we wouldn't have any emergency.
This is why Krsna is giving the GBC a
special chance to set things right with cow protection. Just the fact that they need to visit all the
farms within the next month and send in reports to the Minister of Cow
Protection and Agriculture could prove to be the beginning of their salvation
(and ours) from the threats of Y2K.
Otherwise, a year from now, many of our
temples may not have any milk to offer Krsna -- even from slaughtered cows.
The supreme duty of the ruling king is
to give all protection to law-abiding persons and to chastise those who stray
from the ordinances of the scriptures in ordinary times, when there is no
emergency. PURPORT In the scriptures there is mention of apad-dharma, or
occupational duty at times of extraordinary happenings. It is said that
sometimes the great sage Visvamitra had to live on the flesh of dogs in some
extraordinary dangerous position. In cases of emergency, one may be allowed to
live on the flesh of animals of all description, but that does not mean that
there should be regular slaughterhouses to feed the animal-eaters and that this
system should he encouraged by the state. No one should try to live on flesh in
ordinary times simply for the sake of the palate. If anyone does so, the king
or the executive head should punish him for gross enjoyment.
============ REF. SB 1.17.16
Yogesvara: What's the name of that yogi
who meditated for sixty thousand years? Nitai: Saubhari? Visvamitra. Prabhupada:
Valmiki. Yogesvara: No. Nitai: Visvamitra? Prabhupada: Visvamitra. Yogesvara:
He also had to eat dog, I think. Prabhupada: Yes. Yogesvara: There's a story
about that. Prabhupada: Yes, Visvamitra.
============ REF. Room Conversation --
June 5, 1974, Geneva
Ganesa:
So is that according to time, place and circumstance we must discriminate in
our eating? Prabhupada: What? Ganesa: According to time, place and circumstance
we must discriminate whether to eat meat, whether to eat the vegetables? Prabhupada:
Yes, you must eat. But when good things are available, why should you eat bad
things? You must be pacified. Amogha: Was there a story? The Hindus always tell
this story about I think Visvamitra Rsi eating a dog or something? Prabhupada:
Sometimes. There was no food.
============ REF. Morning Walk -- May 7,
1975, Perth
TRANSLATION
You have so lost your intelligence that, despite my orders, you do not deliver the
seeds of herbs and grains formerly created by Brahma and now hidden within yourself.
PURPORT While creating all the planets in the universe, Lord Brahma also
created the seeds of various grains, herbs, plants and trees. When sufficient
water falls from the clouds, the seeds fructify and produce fruits, grains,
vegetables, etc. By his example, Prthu Maharaja indicates that whenever there
is a scarcity in food production, the head of the government should take steps
to see why production is being held up and what should be done to rectify the
situation. SB 4.17.25 TEXT 25 TEXT amusam ksut-paritanam artanam paridevitam samayisyami
mad-banair bhinnayas tava medasa SYNONYMS amusam—of all of them; ksut-paritanam—suffering
from hunger; artanam—of the distressed; paridevitam—the lamentation;
samayisyami—I shall pacify; mat-banaih—by my arrows; bhinnayah—being cut to
pieces; tava—of you; medasa—by the flesh. TRANSLATION Now, with the help of my
arrows, I shall cut you to pieces and with your flesh satisfy the
hunger-stricken citizens, who are now crying for want of grains. Thus I shall
satisfy the crying citizens of my kingdom.
PURPORT Here we find some indication of how the
government can arrange for the eating of cow flesh. It is here indicated that
in a rare circumstance when there is no supply of grains, the government may
sanction the eating of meat. However, when there is sufficient food, the
government should not allow the eating of cow's flesh just to satisfy the
fastidious tongue. In other words, in rare circumstances, when people are
suffering for want of grains, meat-eating or flesh-eating can be allowed, but
not otherwise. The maintenance of slaughterhouses for the satisfaction of the
tongue and the killing of animals unnecessarily should never be sanctioned by a
government.
As described in a previous verse, cows
and other animals should be given sufficient grass to eat. If despite a
sufficient supply of grass a cow does not supply milk, and if there is an acute
shortage of food, the dried-up cow may be utilized to feed the hungry masses of
people. According to the law of necessity, first of all human society must try
to produce food grains and vegetables, but if they fail in this, they can
indulge in flesh-eating. Otherwise not. As human society is presently
structured, there is sufficient production of grains all over the world.
Therefore the opening of slaughterhouses cannot be supported. In some nations
there is so much surplus grain that sometimes extra grain is thrown into the
sea, and sometimes the government forbids further production of grain.
The conclusion is that the earth
produces sufficient grain to feed the entire population, but the distribution
of this grain is restricted due to trade regulations and a desire for profit.
Consequently in some places there is scarcity of grain and in others profuse
production. If there were one government on the surface of the earth to handle
the distribution of grain, there would be no question of scarcity, no necessity
to open slaughterhouses, and no need to present false theories about
over-population.