Text COM:1983039 (268 lines)

From: Hare Krsna dasi (Brunswick, Maine - USA)

Date: 01-Jan-99 16:58

Cc: (Bhakta) Fernando Dias (Belem - Brazil) [1655] (received: 04-Jan-99

12:32)

Cc: Apocalypse 1999? (Are you ready?) [340]

Cc: Cow (Protection and related issues) [2925]

Cc: (ISKCON) Social and Economic Development [2406]

Cc: UK National Council [1523]

Cc: Varnasrama development [8470]

Reference: Text COM:1978034 by Tribhangananda (das) ACBSP (GB)

Comment: Text COM:1985651 by Kaunteya (das) JPS (Mayapur - IN)

Comment: Text COM:1987239 by (Bhakta) Oleg Demtchenko (Nikolaev - RU)

Comment: Text COM:1987995 by Tribhangananda (das) ACBSP (GB)

Remark: Protected receiver: UK Forum

Subject: "We shall give them employment on our farms"

------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 31 Dec 1998, COM: Tribhangananda (das) ACBSP (GB) wrote:

> [Text 1978034 from COM]

>

> > > > A third alternative would be to simply

> > > > pack it all in and migrate en-masse to Mayapur. I'm sure they'd just

love

> > > > to have hundreds of us all tramping in.

> > >

> >

> > I have some questions on this regard: don't you think that this influx will

> > spoil the preparation of such places? Will they have food & shelter for

> > twice, 3x or more people? Specially when you consider the need of a

one-year

> > supply.

>

> I don't know if it will be six months or a year or indefinitely. Personally,

> I'm assuming that the general will to survive may help to ensure some

practical

> survival strategies for society (including ISKCON) to be evolving by then.

For

> example, growing food, although this will also depend on how well we prepare

> with non-hybrid seeds, agricultural/gardening skills and equipment, etc. But

to

> become a part of those strategies, if we're not so on the ball, may take US

> more time than for many.

>

> (NB non-hybrids are ones that produce good quality seeds for future

generations

> of crops from their plants, but modern society massively depends upon

hybrids.

> The "child" seeds from these are largely innefective or unreliable for the

next

> crop, so we can expect large scale famines in 2001 onwards, without some

major

> re-organisatinal changes, if these are actually still possible.)

>

> It would be prudent, would it not, to prepare for such an influx? After all,

> many devotees (and others) will recognise the fact that survival on their own

> will be very difficult, may not have the resources at their disposal and may

> find the idea of being cut off from association for an indefinite period

rather

> depressing. Are they to be turned away at the door? After all, Prabhupada did

> give us the responsibility for making sure that no-one goes hungry within so

> many miles of our centres.

>

> > If we flock all devotees in a country to one or two communities, how are we

> > going to spread afterwards?

>

> That we will have to see, but certainly we've seen how not everyone can stay

in

> a huddled community indefinitely, and I'm sure the motivation will come

sooner

> or later to branch out and move out, as it has historically in our movement.

>

> > Will communities be livable with hundreds or thousands of people? Won't

they

> > have the very same problems of big cities, like infrastructure?

>

> Everything changes in this world, whether we get used to it or not.

> Adaptability is a key survival strategy both collectively and individually.

We

> do, however, have to remain focused on our goal, which is somehow or other

> preaching. That requires the survival of devotees, and there are many now who

> currently have moved out from the temples. Its quite likely that communities

of

> devotees will both form and swell. But being prepared in advance of a crisis

is

> a distinct advantage.

>

> your servant, Tribhangananda das

>

********************************

Hare Krsna dasi responds:

Many very good points are being addressed here. I believe that Srila

Prabhupada wanted us to be able to use our self-sufficiency as a way of

attracting others to Krsna consciousness. Y2K and the years after will

provide increasing opportunities for us to do that -- if we cooperate to

prepare ourselves. This means city and rural temples must cooperate.

Rural communities should inform their city temples that their policy for

Y2K will be "Little Red Hen" participation. In other words: City temples

cannot count on being welcome to stay in our rural communities unless they

begin *now* to help build up those communities.

Cities have the money; rural communities have the land and the brawn.

Neither can really prosper without the other. Cities temples need to be

willing to invest money to build additional housing and sewage facilities,

also additional farm equipment, etc.

Monthly meetings and joint projects between city temples and nearby rural

communities will help put things in place for a smooth transition for

January 2000 (One year from today).

City temples need to take stock of what the situation *might* be in

January 2000. If I were a husband, there is no way that I would want my

wife and children to stay in a city temple after Dec 20, 1999 -- until

sometime in January when it is clear that there is sufficient heat, water,

sewage and electricity to care for them -- and until it is clear that they

will not be endangered by roving bands of vandals and looters taking

advantage of deadened burgalar alarms.

If I were a pujari, I would be seriously considering whether it would be

possible to provide enough water to bathe the Deities and Their pujaris if

the municiple water system shut down for a couple of weeks. I might think

our Deities would be warmer, safer and more comfortable if I moved them to

a rural community for the crisis period.

The water system may shut down, or it may not. But there is a significant

chance that it will. So the responsible thing is to plan how to keep the

Deities safe in the event that it does. Just like in Los Angeles, during

the earthquake a couple years ago. There was a chance that the temple

would collapse. It wasn't certain, but there was a significant chance

that the Deities would be hurt, so the pujaris quickly moved them out of

the temple, until it became clear that the danger had passed.

But, all of these things need to be thought out, discussed and planned out

well in advance. City and rural communities need to build communications

and increase devotee friendships and service coordination. Otherwise, the

result will be a disaster.

*********************************************

WHAT ABOUT INVITING NON-DEVOTEES INTO OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES?

It seems that Srila Prabhupada wanted us to be able to do this. Here are

two excerpts:

"Live in the Lap of Material Nature and Depend on Krsna" March 1982

interview of Tejiyas das, head of ISKCON Bhubaneswvara by Paramananda

dasa, ISKCON Minister of Agriculture. ISKCON Farm Newletter v.2, n.1,

1983:

(Tejiyas:) So in terms of the preaching directly, the farm itself is a

place for devotees to come and be trained. Prabhupada indicated that many

times that it is very essential to have places. When there are large

upsets in the economic and social conditions of the world he said millions

of people won't even have any other place to get food. We will have to

show them how to do everything. That will come because the world doesn't

know how much they are depending upon industrial civilization...

There will be a point when Krsna consciousness expands very quickly,

quicker than we can think of. This is Lord Caitanya's prophecy. There

will be so many nice situations...When we first got the hardbound Gitas

and Prabhupada was saying we should distribute them and the hardbound

Krsna books came from Japan, it was a big inconceivable thing.

So how are there going to be thousands and thousands of farms with people

coming in by the millions? Prabhupada said we would be maintaining them.

He said there will not be any food elsewhere to eat. He said they will

not know how to grow grains. They won't know how to do it. They just

have forgotten. They do not know how to live self-sufficiently...

********************

INDIA, JANUARY 11, 1977

CONVERSATION ON TRAIN TO ALLAHABAD

Hari-sauri: Should we try to make an effort to have our householders go

and live on the farms, a special effort? If it's ready to do that?

Prabhupada: Why householders? Everyone. Hare Krsna. (japa)

Ramesvara: In America there is a very big emphasis on getting people to

join us by moving into our temples. The temple presidents are very eager

to get as many people to move in as possible, but in the long run most

people cannot come up to the standard.

Prabhupada: Therefore I am [advocating] farms.

Ramesvara: So they have to be encouraged to have a little bit of Krsna

consciousness in their own home, make their home a temple.

Prabhupada: No, let them go to the farm, New Vrindaban.

Ramesvara: Many people... Most people in the world, they are grhamedhis,

and they cannot give it up so easily.

Prabhupada: "No, you remain... Come here with your wife, children. You

remain grhamedhi."

Jagadisa: New Vrindaban is very austere. If we build little bungalows with

modern convenience...

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Jagadisa: There has to be some modern convenience.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Then we shall do that.

Ramesvara: But for many people who live in the cities, they have their

jobs already. They don't want to give it up...

Say, in America, most people live in the cities, and they already have

their job, and they are set in their ways.

Prabhupada: But you said that there is unemployment also.

Ramesvara: To a certain extent. But there are still 250,000,000 people. So

most of them...

Prabhupada: So those who are unemployed, let them come to us. We shall

give them employment.

Ramesvara: Yes. But for the mass population...

Prabhupada: Well, gradually you will increase and...

Ramesvara: We have to give them something that they can do in their home.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Ramesvara: Because it is impractical to think that they will give up

everything and move into the temple.

Prabhupada: No, those who are unemployed, let them come. We shall give

them employment.

Jagadisa: On the farm.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: For those who are unemployed, that's attractive.

Jagadisa: But for those who are already employed...

Ramesvara: But most people have jobs.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Ramesvara: Many people already have their jobs and their families.

Prabhupada: All right, let them not come, but those who are unemployed,

let them come.

Ramesvara: But what...? For those people who already have their jobs,

instead of...

Prabhupada: That job... They will be very soon jobless. Don't worry.

(laughs) They will come. They will be obliged to come. Now they have got

job, but as the days are advancing in Kali-yuga, they'll be jobless.

*******************************

HKDD:

Personally, I believe that the impact of the Y2K problem will create

massive unemployment worldwide. Right now billions of dollars are being

diverted to upgrade computers around the world. Those billions of dollars

are going to highly-paid computer programers. Layoffs off other employees

are already beginning. At this point, it's hard to tell if they are being

laid off due to the Asian monetary crisis or funds diverted to Y2K

projects. Gradually, it may be more apparent. But, economically,

diverting money from many low-paid jobs to pay a few high-paid jobs is bad

for the economy, because it slows the "velocity of money." That means

that high-paid people just sit on their money or invest it in stock market

speculation, etc, whereas low-paid workers need to spend most of their

money immediately for food, shelter, etc. -- (which explains why Reagan's

"trickle-down" theory never really helped poor people). Money circulates

through the economy faster when all the low-paid people are employed,

creating more prosperity.

In January of 2000 will come the computer crashes and the fall of

different business that can't afford to fix problems. That will create

some unemployment.

After January will come the bulk of the high-dollar lawsuits against

hundreds or thousands of businesses and institutions around the world who

caused damages because they were not Y2K compliant.

More money to pay out. More layoffs. More unemployment.

Then maybe a year later another wave of layoffs as the crippling effects

to international trade are felt because of third world countries that

could not upgrade ocean ports and air ports sufficienctly to maintain the

same level of trade. Effects of urban unrest caused by Y2K breakdowns

make themselves felt to distant trading partners. Less demand for

products. More unemployment.

I personally think that one of the biggest dangers of the Y2K virus is

that it will escalate unemployment around the world.

But, here Prabhupada is saying, Yes, we can expect unemployment will

increase, but it will be a preaching opportunity for us, because we will

bring people to our farms and give them employment. When we do this,

they will become devotees.

According to Srila Prabhupada's vision, the material catastrophe is

actually an excellent preaching opportunity -- if we prepare for it.

your servant,

Hare Krsna dasi

(Text COM:1983039) -----------------------------------------